From: "Lewis Rosenthal" Received: from [107.107.59.104] (account lgrosenthal@2rosenthals.com HELO www.palm.com) by 2rosenthals.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.10) with ESMTPSA id 1150826 for lswitcher-dev@2rosenthals.com; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 15:28:06 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 15:28:05 -0400 To: "lSwitcher Developers Mailing List" Subject: Re: [lswitcher-dev] lSwitcher-2-92-0-RC_12.wpi In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Palm webOS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Alternative_=_Boundary_=_1601234885" Message-ID: --Alternative_=_Boundary_=_1601234885 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quick top-posted correction:

Quit is *not* a valid folder action.

Close *is* a = valid folder action.

Sorry about that!

-- 
Lewis

On Sep 27, 2020 3:23 PM, Gregg Young <lswitcher-dev@2rosenthals= =2Ecom> wrote:

Hi Lewis=0D
>=0D
>Hi, and sorr= y for lagging so far behind...=0D
=0D
You have a lot on your plate so= don't worry about this.=0D
=0D
>=0D
>On 09/27/20 07:44 am, = Alfredo Fern=C3=A1ndez D=C3=ADaz wrote:=0D
>>On 20/09/27 04:15, Gr= egg Young wrote:=0D
>>>On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 01:04:42 +0200 Alfre= do Fern=C3=A1ndez D=C3=ADaz wrote:=0D
>>>>=0D
>>>= ;>On 20/09/26 23:01, Gregg Young wrote:=0D
>>>>Of course,= I see. But if the code in XCenter did the same, I mean, if=0D
>>&= gt;>"reduce Desktop" is checked, check if something is using it already= =0D
>>>>on=0D
>>>>startup, and act accordingl= y, wouldn't it all appear to work OK? At=0D
>>>>least no app= lication would cause the other to fail, and it's not like=0D
>>>= ;>there are many more to interfere out there. Am I missing something=0D<= br>>>>>else?=0D
>>>=0D
>>>You have a pl= an for forcing the update of XWP on all systems and=0D
>>>preve= nting=0D
>>>the use of Warp Center which we can't fix and you k= now for certain=0D
>>>these=0D
>>>are the only prog= rams that use this?=0D
>>=0D
>>I always have a plan. Phas= e I is getting to know how all of this works=0D
>>without looking = at the code. Thanks for your help ;)=0D
>>=0D
>>I imagine= the lack of a WarpCenter object in ArcaOS kind of prevents=0D
>>i= ts use. If the people at ArcaNoae were really determined to do that=0D
&= gt;>I imagine they could also prevent the SmartCenter class from being= =0D
>>registered in the first place in future versions. That would= be an even=0D
>>safer way to be sure nothing will interfere with = what's not even there.=0D
>>And I imagine those people would want = as many customers as possible to=0D
>>be reasonably updated. Serio= usly, how many people are left outside that=0D
>>lot (besides me ;= )?=0D
>>=0D
>=0D
>If you install ArcaOS and deselect A= rcaOS Desktop, you get WarpCenter.=0D
>There was never any intention = of removing it from the distro.=0D
>=0D
>In larger environments= , change implies a learning curve. We wanted=0D
>ArcaOS to be able to= seamlessly replace existing Warp 4 installations=0D
>without requiri= ng users (generally less technically savvy than we,=0D
>particularly = pertaining to matters OS/2) to learn new steps to=0D
>accomplish the = same tasks. You can even use the old Warp 3 toolbar (and=0D
>we have = some enterprise clients who do).=0D
=0D
I kinda thought that this was= how AcraOS handle things like this.=0D
=0D
>=0D
>>Then i= t's all a matter of documenting things properly (do not do this=0D
>&= gt;and that for such and such reason: just a twist on the current docs)=0D<= br>>>and wait for reports of the three people in the entire universe = who=0D
>>still see something break up in their systems.=0D
>= >=0D
>=0D
>:-)=0D
>=0D
>>But you know, I've b= een planning to upgrade my lSwitcher for some time=0D
>>now, so do= n't get upset. I would say you still have years to see my=0D
>>pla= ns change. :-)=0D
>>=0D
>=0D
>:-D=0D
>=0D
>= ;>...=0D
>>>>Almost there, see attachment. Could you move= it further left to align=0D
>>>>with 'Idioma' above, maybe?= I think we'd be done for good.=0D
>>>=0D
>>>On my = system if I do that I see a strange clipped box following the +=0D
>&= gt;>sign.=0D
>>>I can move 'Idioma' to the right if you like= =2E Thanks=0D
>>=0D
>>I'll have a look at that later. I'v= e changed a couple of strings=0D
>>to stay closer to the current E= nglish menu (lSwitcher settings ->=0D
>>Properties, and help mn= emonics).=0D
>>=0D
>>[...]=0D
>>>>-Open a = WPS folder window. Bring up the PM popup, 'C' is for close,=0D
>>&= gt;>and works; good. Open the folder again, bring up the popup menu for= =0D
>>>>the folder on the taskbar ('Move' is in there, btw):= now 'Close' is a=0D
>>>>submenu with 'Close' and 'Quit', an= d 'Quit' does nothing, as I half=0D
>>>>expected. I suppose = that's meant for applications (which have=0D
>>>>'Close',=0D=
>>>>'Quit', 'SigKill', 'DosKill'...)=0D
>>>=0D<= br>>>>I am not clear as to what you are telling me here.=0D
>= ;>=0D
>>Yeah, I've written better pieces. Have a look at the sc= reenshot.=0D
>>'Programs' is a WPS folder: you can make it 'Close'= but not 'Quit'.=0D
>>Maybe the 'Close' menu should be replaced by= its first child item,=0D
>>which is the only one that works in th= at situation.=0D
>>=0D
>=0D
>I had to walk through you= r steps, but indeed, this also occurs with the=0D
>widget.=0D
=0D<= br>Not surprising since they both use the same code for this.=0D
=0D
= >=0D
>Close is not a valid action for a folder object, and should = be filtered=0D
>from the list of actions. =0D
=0D
Close is vali= d and works. Quit on the other hand not so much. If close isn't valid why i= s it on the folder's own menu?=0D
=0D
Doing so, then narrows the Clos= e > submenu to=0D
>just Close, it's "first child item" (Close >= Close), making the submenu=0D
>superfluous.=0D
=0D
Yes I think= I will eliminate the submenu completely and just put the kill choices unde= r close on the main menu when appropriate. Quit goes away.=0D
=0D
>= ;=0D
>It's often hard to describe some of these oddities. I think you= did an=0D
>excellent job, my friend, but a visual aid (such as provi= ded here) would=0D
>probably have come in handy to make the initial p= oint. :-)=0D
>=0D
>So, we have a few issues:=0D
>=0D
&= gt;1. Quit is not a valid action for folder objects and should be removed= =0D
>from the Close submenu;=0D
>2. An only child on a submenu = is very lonely :-( ;=0D
=0D
See plan above for 1 & 2. =0D
=0D<= br>>3. Missing Move action for icons in the popup and their context menu= s=0D
>there;=0D
=0D
I need to figure out why move was filtered = on the popup. Don't think I did that. Alfred is move on the popup menus in = your prehistoric version? It behaves much differently than the other comman= ds in that it acts across virtual desktops which may mess with the popup so= mehow.=0D
=0D
>4. Close from the popup hotkey only performs...what= ? Default Close, as=0D
>from the left window manager menu?=0D
=0D<= br>The hotkeys work on the selected process. It sends a WM_CLOSE message to= that process. =0D
=0D
>5. Q from the context menu in the popup cl= oses the context menu (not=0D
>a bad feature; surely harmless, but I'= m not sure we documented that=0D
>anywhere);=0D
>6. Q from the = popup (no context menu open) is documented as quitting,=0D
=0D
These = (5 & 6) will go away.=0D
=0D
> but this does not seem to wor= k, and Q has been removed from the list=0D
> of popup hotkeys in th= e UI;=0D
>7. Ultimately, we are going to have to do something with th= e hotkey=0D
> selections (I just re-read the documentation) - my RF= E for these=0D
> would be to make them customizable, defaulting to = English, and use=0D
> the customized key names in the popup.=0D
= =0D
The only way this can happen is if I make the popup permanently stic= ky. The mnemonics don't work with the ALT or CTL key down. It is the hotkey= s that make them appear to work. =0D
=0D
>=0D
>=0D
>Of= the above, 1, 2, 3, and 6 seem like blockers to the 2.92 release.=0D
&g= t;Documentation pertaining to 5 needs a tweak.=0D
=0D
1, 2, 5, 6 go a= way with my purposed change. I will need to determine if there is a technic= al reason for filtering move from the popup. =0D
=0D
>=0D
>&= gt;>>=0D
>>>>-Packaging: any particular reason why we = keep old English readmes,=0D
>>>>i.e.=0D
>>>>= readme.v*?=0D
>>>=0D
>>>I always package the histor= ic readmes on my first release. They can=0D
>>>probably go away= now. Thanks=0D
>>=0D
>>Thank you for all you do ^^=0D>>=0D
>=0D
>Ditto, that.=0D
=0D
Thanks=0D
=0DGregg=0D
=0D
P.S. My new keyboard and mouse (Logitech MK550) just a= rrived. Not sure I like the keyboard but it is nice to have a fully working= mouse button 2.=0D
=0D
=0D
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=0D
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--Alternative_=_Boundary_=_1601234885 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quick top-posted correction:=0A=0AQuit is *not* a valid folder action.=0A= =0AClose *is* a valid folder action.=0A=0ASorry about that!=0A=0A-- =0ALewi= s=0A=0AOn Sep 27, 2020 3:23 PM, Gregg Young = wrote: =0A=0AHi Lewis=0A=0A>=0A=0A>Hi, and sorry for lagging so far behind= =2E..=0A=0A=0A=0AYou have a lot on your plate so don't worry about this.=0A= =0A=0A=0A>=0A=0A>On 09/27/20 07:44 am, Alfredo Fern=C3=A1ndez D=C3=ADaz wro= te:=0A=0A>>On 20/09/27 04:15, Gregg Young wrote:=0A=0A>>>On Sun, 27 Sep 202= 0 01:04:42 +0200 Alfredo Fern=C3=A1ndez D=C3=ADaz wrote:=0A=0A>>>>=0A=0A>>>= >On 20/09/26 23:01, Gregg Young wrote:=0A=0A>>>>Of course, I see. But if th= e code in XCenter did the same, I mean, if=0A=0A>>>>"reduce Desktop" is che= cked, check if something is using it already=0A=0A>>>>on=0A=0A>>>>startup, = and act accordingly, wouldn't it all appear to work OK? At=0A=0A>>>>least n= o application would cause the other to fail, and it's not like=0A=0A>>>>the= re are many more to interfere out there. Am I missing something=0A=0A>>>>el= se?=0A=0A>>>=0A=0A>>>You have a plan for forcing the update of XWP on all s= ystems and=0A=0A>>>preventing=0A=0A>>>the use of Warp Center which we can't= fix and you know for certain=0A=0A>>>these=0A=0A>>>are the only programs t= hat use this?=0A=0A>>=0A=0A>>I always have a plan. Phase I is getting to kn= ow how all of this works=0A=0A>>without looking at the code. Thanks for you= r help ;)=0A=0A>>=0A=0A>>I imagine the lack of a WarpCenter object in ArcaO= S kind of prevents=0A=0A>>its use. If the people at ArcaNoae were really de= termined to do that=0A=0A>>I imagine they could also prevent the SmartCente= r class from being=0A=0A>>registered in the first place in future versions.= That would be an even=0A=0A>>safer way to be sure nothing will interfere w= ith what's not even there.=0A=0A>>And I imagine those people would want as = many customers as possible to=0A=0A>>be reasonably updated. Seriously, how = many people are left outside that=0A=0A>>lot (besides me ;)?=0A=0A>>=0A=0A>= =0A=0A>If you install ArcaOS and deselect ArcaOS Desktop, you get WarpCente= r.=0A=0A>There was never any intention of removing it from the distro.=0A= =0A>=0A=0A>In larger environments, change implies a learning curve. We want= ed=0A=0A>ArcaOS to be able to seamlessly replace existing Warp 4 installati= ons=0A=0A>without requiring users (generally less technically savvy than we= ,=0A=0A>particularly pertaining to matters OS/2) to learn new steps to=0A= =0A>accomplish the same tasks. You can even use the old Warp 3 toolbar (and= =0A=0A>we have some enterprise clients who do).=0A=0A=0A=0AI kinda thought = that this was how AcraOS handle things like this.=0A=0A=0A=0A>=0A=0A>>Then = it's all a matter of documenting things properly (do not do this=0A=0A>>and= that for such and such reason: just a twist on the current docs)=0A=0A>>an= d wait for reports of the three people in the entire universe who=0A=0A>>st= ill see something break up in their systems.=0A=0A>>=0A=0A>=0A=0A>:-)=0A=0A= >=0A=0A>>But you know, I've been planning to upgrade my lSwitcher for some = time=0A=0A>>now, so don't get upset. I would say you still have years to se= e my=0A=0A>>plans change. :-)=0A=0A>>=0A=0A>=0A=0A>:-D=0A=0A>=0A=0A>>...=0A= =0A>>>>Almost there, see attachment. Could you move it further left to alig= n=0A=0A>>>>with 'Idioma' above, maybe? I think we'd be done for good.=0A=0A= >>>=0A=0A>>>On my system if I do that I see a strange clipped box following= the +=0A=0A>>>sign.=0A=0A>>>I can move 'Idioma' to the right if you like. = Thanks=0A=0A>>=0A=0A>>I'll have a look at that later. I've changed a couple= of strings=0A=0A>>to stay closer to the current English menu (lSwitcher se= ttings ->=0A=0A>>Properties, and help mnemonics).=0A=0A>>=0A=0A>>[...]=0A= =0A>>>>-Open a WPS folder window. Bring up the PM popup, 'C' is for close,= =0A=0A>>>>and works; good. Open the folder again, bring up the popup menu f= or=0A=0A>>>>the folder on the taskbar ('Move' is in there, btw): now 'Close= ' is a=0A=0A>>>>submenu with 'Close' and 'Quit', and 'Quit' does nothing, a= s I half=0A=0A>>>>expected. I suppose that's meant for applications (which = have=0A=0A>>>>'Close',=0A=0A>>>>'Quit', 'SigKill', 'DosKill'...)=0A=0A>>>= =0A=0A>>>I am not clear as to what you are telling me here.=0A=0A>>=0A=0A>>= Yeah, I've written better pieces. Have a look at the screenshot.=0A=0A>>'Pr= ograms' is a WPS folder: you can make it 'Close' but not 'Quit'.=0A=0A>>May= be the 'Close' menu should be replaced by its first child item,=0A=0A>>whic= h is the only one that works in that situation.=0A=0A>>=0A=0A>=0A=0A>I had = to walk through your steps, but indeed, this also occurs with the=0A=0A>wid= get.=0A=0A=0A=0ANot surprising since they both use the same code for this.= =0A=0A=0A=0A>=0A=0A>Close is not a valid action for a folder object, and sh= ould be filtered=0A=0A>from the list of actions. =0A=0A=0A=0AClose is valid= and works. Quit on the other hand not so much. If close isn't valid why is= it on the folder's own menu?=0A=0A=0A=0ADoing so, then narrows the Close >= submenu to=0A=0A>just Close, it's "first child item" (Close > Close), maki= ng the submenu=0A=0A>superfluous.=0A=0A=0A=0AYes I think I will eliminate t= he submenu completely and just put the kill choices under close on the main= menu when appropriate. Quit goes away.=0A=0A=0A=0A>=0A=0A>It's often hard = to describe some of these oddities. I think you did an=0A=0A>excellent job,= my friend, but a visual aid (such as provided here) would=0A=0A>probably h= ave come in handy to make the initial point. :-)=0A=0A>=0A=0A>So, we have a= few issues:=0A=0A>=0A=0A>1. Quit is not a valid action for folder objects = and should be removed=0A=0A>from the Close submenu;=0A=0A>2. An only child = on a submenu is very lonely :-( ;=0A=0A=0A=0ASee plan above for 1 & 2. =0A= =0A=0A=0A>3. Missing Move action for icons in the popup and their context m= enus=0A=0A>there;=0A=0A=0A=0AI need to figure out why move was filtered on = the popup. Don't think I did that. Alfred is move on the popup menus in you= r prehistoric version? It behaves much differently than the other commands = in that it acts across virtual desktops which may mess with the popup someh= ow.=0A=0A=0A=0A>4. Close from the popup hotkey only performs...what? Defaul= t Close, as=0A=0A>from the left window manager menu?=0A=0A=0A=0AThe hotkeys= work on the selected process. It sends a WM_CLOSE message to that process.= =0A=0A=0A=0A>5. Q from the context menu in the popup closes the context me= nu (not=0A=0A>a bad feature; surely harmless, but I'm not sure we documente= d that=0A=0A>anywhere);=0A=0A>6. Q from the popup (no context menu open) is= documented as quitting,=0A=0A=0A=0AThese (5 & 6) will go away.=0A=0A=0A=0A= > but this does not seem to work, and Q has been removed from the list=0A= =0A> of popup hotkeys in the UI;=0A=0A>7. Ultimately, we are going to hav= e to do something with the hotkey=0A=0A> selections (I just re-read the d= ocumentation) - my RFE for these=0A=0A> would be to make them customizabl= e, defaulting to English, and use=0A=0A> the customized key names in the = popup.=0A=0A=0A=0AThe only way this can happen is if I make the popup perma= nently sticky. The mnemonics don't work with the ALT or CTL key down. It is= the hotkeys that make them appear to work. =0A=0A=0A=0A>=0A=0A>=0A=0A>Of t= he above, 1, 2, 3, and 6 seem like blockers to the 2.92 release.=0A=0A>Docu= mentation pertaining to 5 needs a tweak.=0A=0A=0A=0A1, 2, 5, 6 go away with= my purposed change. I will need to determine if there is a technical reaso= n for filtering move from the popup. =0A=0A=0A=0A>=0A=0A>>>>=0A=0A>>>>-Pack= aging: any particular reason why we keep old English readmes,=0A=0A>>>>i.e.= =0A=0A>>>>readme.v*?=0A=0A>>>=0A=0A>>>I always package the historic readmes= on my first release. They can=0A=0A>>>probably go away now. Thanks=0A=0A>>= =0A=0A>>Thank you for all you do ^^=0A=0A>>=0A=0A>=0A=0A>Ditto, that.=0A=0A= =0A=0AThanks=0A=0A=0A=0AGregg=0A=0A=0A=0AP.S. My new keyboard and mouse (Lo= gitech MK550) just arrived. Not sure I like the keyboard but it is nice to = have a fully working mouse button 2.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=0A=0AThis message is sent to you becau= se you are subscribed to=0A=0A the mailing list .=0A=0ATo unsubscribe, E-mail to: =0A=0ATo switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to =0A=0ATo switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to =0A=0ASend administrative queries to =0A=0ATo subscribe (new addresses), E-mail to: and reply to the confirmation email.=0A=0AWeb arc= hives are publicly available at: http://lists.2rosenthals.com=0A=0A=0A=0ATh= is list is hosted by Rosenthal & Rosenthal, LLC=0A=0AP.O. Box 281, Deer Par= k, NY 11729-0281. Non-=0A=0Aelectronic communications related to content=0A= =0Acontained in these messages should be directed=0A=0Ato the above address= =2E (CAN-SPAM Act of 2003)=0A=0A=0A=0A=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=0A=0A=0A=0A --Alternative_=_Boundary_=_1601234885--